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Post by Plague von Karma on Jul 21, 2020 0:24:22 GMT
This thread is for the development of Sample Sets for Nintendo Cup '97. With the dex now fully supporting OMs, there's a lot to do. The following Pokemon will need sample sets, which are listed on the Viability Rankings on Pokemon Battle Historia. I'm open to other Pokemon being suggested, so long as a sufficient case is made. Pokemon that are done are crossed off. JynxTauros- Lapras
ElectrodeJolteonExeggutor- Alakazam
GengarDugtrioStarmieRhydonZapdos- Venusaur
Nidoking- Victreebel
- Cloyster
- Moltres
- Dragonite
Nidoqueen- Golem
- Rapidash
- Slowbro
- Chansey
- Snorlax
- Articuno
- Charizard
- Ninetales
- Tentacruel
- Dewgong
- Kangaskhan
- Blastoise
- Venomoth
- Magneton
- Dodrio
- Onix
- Hypno
- Marowak
- Gyarados
- Vaporeon
- Flareon
- Raichu
- Sandslash
- Clefable
- Parasect
- Persian
- Poliwrath
- Tangela
- Mr. Mime
- Electabuzz
- Omastar
The ProcessIf you aim to make a Sample Set, simply post a proposed set in the thread. You can post any amount of sets for any amount of Pokemon, so long as you put genuine thought into them. For example, you can post 2 sets for Chansey, and a single set for Slowbro. The format is as follows; Pokemon Level: (here) - Move 1 - Move 2 - Move 3 - Move 4 And while not required, you can note; - Logic behind move choices (eg. This move is for Rhydon)
- Other options (eg. While less viable, Submission can be used for a better Chansey matchup)
For a Sample Set to go on-site, it will require at least one user to approve it. This can be in this thread or on Discord. It should go through at least one or two revisions, but it isn't necessary. Be sure to post intelligently, and be open to discourse. Make sure not to plagiarize analyses from Pokemon Battle Historia: I'll know. They make a good reference, but experiment and come up with your own content. If you have sufficient approval, then you can use this sample HTML to get the analysis beamed up onto the dex with credits. Make sure to give the proper credit! |
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Post by Plague von Karma on Jul 21, 2020 4:19:17 GMT
May as well throw forward a few sets for this. These are common L55 options.
Tauros
Level: 55
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
The King of Gen 1 set; it actually originated here! This set took Toru Miyasawa to victory at the final tournament at Spaceworld 1997. It doesn't really need much explanation, surely? Level 55 is used for maximum damage output and is generally considered to be the standard usage for the bull. If you use a level balance team, you can make it your L53/52 threat instead.
In terms of other options, if playing Stadium Poke Cup, Double-Edge or Substitute can replace Hyper Beam. Double-Edge doesn't give recoil if you KO an opponent in Stadium 0 and 1, Substitute can block status. Thunderbolt can be used for a better Cloyster matchup, which is helpful since boom offense is pretty decent here despite Self-KO Clause. Some troglodytes like to use Fire Blast over Blizzard, and I suppose that's valid too.
Lapras
Level: 55
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Body Slam / Reflect
- Rest / Hyper Beam
Lapras is one of the best Pokemon for abusing Stadium Sleep Clause. It's unfathomably bulky, taking two Tauros Hyper Beams at L55, and two L50-51 Jolteon Thunderbolts. Rest allows it to serve as a good wall to Hyper Beams throughout a game, while also being immune to Blizzard's terrifying 30% Freeze chance. BlizzBolt coverage is icing on the cake, allowing it to be a very offensive, bulky threat. Body Slam gives Lapras the ability to make use of its good Attack stat while spreading paralysis. It can take 2 Tauros Hyper Beams at L55, which is the main reason it's used. Reflect and Rest make it into a nice wall, though it loses momentum.
For other options, Confuse Ray and Sing are relevant disruption options. However, Lapras's purpose is moreso for its bulky nature in this format, and it shouldn't take too many hits, otherwise it can't stop the incoming Tauros assault. Psychic and Surf are decent alternative coverage options, though BlizzBolt tends to be just fine.
Articuno (Agility)
Level: 55
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam / Double-Edge / Hyper Beam
- Reflect
- Agility
This Pokemon is super degen, man. Blizzard is Articuno's call to action, being the strongest of its kind with a 30% chance to freeze. Ice Beam can be used so to not wear out Blizzard's PP, but Hyper Beam can hit physically frail Pokemon more effectively. Double-Edge 2HKOs Jynx. Reflect can be used to better handle Rock Slide Kangaskhan and other similar threats. Agility is the main reason L55 Articuno is used, getting it to a good Speed tier and making it very difficult to check. It loses hard to Lapras though...
Articuno (Rest)
Level: 55 / 53
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam / Double-Edge
- Reflect
- Rest
This takes a more defensive approach. Rest is a good option to abuse Stadium Sleep Clause while walling threats in tandem with Reflect. This makes Articuno more capable of beating Lapras and Jynx, as well as annoy Tauros trying to beat something with Hyper Beam. It also works as a better status absorber, already taking Blizzards and now taking Thunder Waves.
In terms of other options, Double Team is also a fair option to leave Articuno less vulnerable to coverage options such as Fire Blast or Rock Slide. Fly can be used instead for secondary STAB...or potentially activating the semi-invulnerability glitch.
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Post by zalarye on Jul 23, 2020 14:34:00 GMT
Posting the obvious sets just to get some discussion going how they should be improved
Electrode
Level: 50
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Double Team
- Explosion
Electrode doesn't learn another move that lets it fill its support role as well as this set, so this is an easy one.
Other options: Not even Light Screen if we're being honest
Jolteon
Level: 55 / 51 / 53 / this needs to be expanded on in a real analysis anyway
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Double Team / Pin Missile
- Rest
Jolteon can work at any level but these are the ones that matter. Benchmarks are 51 to outspeed Starmie, 53 to 2HKO 55 Lapras (77%), 55 to OHKO 55 Lapras on a crit (79%). Rest is expected to win Electric wars and open up PP stall opportunities which Double Team has great synergy with. Pin Missile seems less useful overall, but turning the table on braindead Grass switchins is huge.
Other options: Double Kick, Focus Energy in Poke Cup.
Exeggutor
Level: 50
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Explosion
The standard status spreading set is everything you want out of Exeggutor, not much to say here. I don't recommend actually using the toxseed set so I'd put them in
Other options: Double Edge, Mega Drain, Toxic, Leech Seed, Rest
Gengar
Level: 50
- Hypnosis
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Explosion
Options like Mega Drain are harder to pull off with less rocks running around and chances to use stoss are rare from what I've seen, so Psychic is the only filler I'd use myself. Level 55 has a few nice calcs but its main use is outspeeding med/low Tauros, which we should just pretend doesn't exist.
Other options: Double Team, Seismic Toss, Confuse Ray
Starmie
Level: 55
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Minimize / Thunder Wave
- Recover
Having blizzbolt rather than something like Blizzard Psychic is needed for the Starmie ditto, and options for 2 attacks sets past that are just not worth it in 3v3. The Thunder Wave set needs to be explored more but it's a pretty strong alternative to eva degeneracy. 55 for Tauros outspeed every time.
Other options: Psychic, Reflect, Light Screen
Rhydon
Level: 55 / 50
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Blizzard / Body Slam
- Double Team / Horn Drill / Substitute
Last low effort copypaste of this post. Body Slam and Substitute are generally worse than the standard switch moves, but adding safety against Ice mons seems like enough of a reason to include them. 55 has to be noted for its odds to beat med Zam and Jynx one on one, which makes it a really nice candidate for an ace.
Now that that's over, comments for Plague: Tauros is an obvious yes. Mono agilicuno is definitely a set and should be included but I think HB and Rest need attention, maybe in another set since they play differently. Its walling potential is one of the main reasons to use it and should be reflected.
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Post by Plague von Karma on Jul 23, 2020 16:13:50 GMT
Posting the obvious sets just to get some discussion going how they should be improved Electrode Level: 50 - Thunderbolt - Thunder Wave - Double Team - Explosion Electrode doesn't learn another move that lets it fill its support role as well as this set, so this is an easy one. Other options: Not even Light Screen if we're being honest Jolteon Level: 55 / 51 / 53 / this needs to be expanded on in a real analysis anyway - Thunderbolt - Thunder Wave - Double Team / Pin Missile - Rest Jolteon can work at any level but these are the ones that matter. Benchmarks are 51 to outspeed Starmie, 53 to 2HKO 55 Lapras (77%), 55 to OHKO 55 Lapras on a crit (79%). Rest is expected to win Electric wars and open up PP stall opportunities which Double Team has great synergy with. Pin Missile seems less useful overall, but turning the table on braindead Grass switchins is huge. Other options: Focus Energy in Poke Cup. Exeggutor Level: 50 - Sleep Powder - Stun Spore - Psychic - Explosion The standard status spreading set is everything you want out of Exeggutor, not much to say here. I don't recommend actually using the toxseed set so I'd put them in Other options: Double Edge, Mega Drain, Toxic, Leech Seed, Rest Gengar Level: 50 - Hypnosis - Thunderbolt - Psychic - Explosion Options like Mega Drain are harder to pull off with less rocks running around and chances to use stoss are rare from what I've seen, so Psychic is the only filler I'd use myself. Level 55 has a few nice calcs but its main use is outspeeding med/low Tauros, which we should just pretend doesn't exist. Other options: Double Team, Seismic Toss, Confuse Ray Starmie Level: 55 - Blizzard - Thunderbolt - Minimize / Thunder Wave - Recover Having blizzbolt rather than something like Blizzard Psychic is needed for the Starmie ditto, and options for 2 attacks sets past that are just not worth it in 3v3. The Thunder Wave set needs to be explored more but it's a pretty strong alternative to eva degeneracy. 55 for Tauros outspeed every time. Other options: Psychic, Surf, Reflect, Light Screen Rhydon Level: 55 / 50 - Earthquake - Rock Slide - Blizzard / Body Slam - Double Team / Substitute Last low effort copypaste of this post. Body Slam and Substitute are generally worse than the standard switch moves, but adding safety against Ice mons seems like enough of a reason to include them. 55 has to be noted for its odds to beat med Zam and Jynx one on one, which makes it a really nice candidate for an ace. Now that that's over, comments for Plague: Tauros is an obvious yes. Mono agilicuno is definitely a set and should be included but I think HB and Rest need attention, maybe in another set since they play differently. Its walling potential is one of the main reasons to use it and should be reflected. So some comments on those; - Jolteon should have Double Kick mentioned in Other Options imo. Otherwise, it's fine.
- I don't think Surf even needs a mention on Starmie since its main purpose is killing Rhydon/Golem. It deals more damage to zam but why not just try to freeze it with Blizzard in that matchup?
- Rhydon needs Horn Drill somewhere, either on the 4th slot or in Other Options. It's a threat, especially at L55, since it'll at least outspeed something.
As for my set comments, I agree. Rest+Reflect cuno could def get more of a mention, I'll sort that out on an edit. |
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Post by zalarye on Jul 24, 2020 6:58:31 GMT
Edited the sets mentioned. I didn't bother calcing Double Kick vs Chansey before dropping it and I didn't think of paralysis support for Horn Drill don, so those are on me. I thought Surf could be alright for Jynx and Zam for 3 attacks but you're right, it's pretty much useless (both 3 attacks and Surf) even compared to screens because it's redundant in any of the MUs it "helps" in. Maybe I should remove MD egg for similar reasons lol. More sets.
Venusaur
Level: 50
- Sleep Powder
- Swords Dance
- Razor Leaf
- Body Slam / Hyper Beam
Venusaur's appeal over other Grasses is in its speed tier, letting it outspeed and sleep Lapras without level investment. If this isn't a concern, like on a balanced level setup, Victreebel's raw strength and versatility should outweigh Venusaur's higher defense stat, but you could argue they even out at 55. Swords Dance is the only real way to take advantage of sleep, leaving a choice between Body Slam's reliability and paralysis spread and Hyper Beam's killing power for a last move. Pretty much the only thing that will die in one shot to a +2 Hyper Beam is Jynx, so Body Slam is favored against healthy teams.
Nidoqueen
Level: 51 / 53
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Horn Drill / Double Team
Speaking of balance teams, Nidoqueen is best used over Nidoking at low and medium levels where its bulk makes it a little bit better at getting hits in on aces of Alakazam, Rhydon, and even Lapras. Though it sacrifices physical attack, the Earthquake difference doesn't really matter. The moveset should always include the coverage the Nidos are known for, and the last slot is filler. Horn Drill is a common last resort while a Double Team on a forced switch helps with survivability.
Other options: Body Slam, Substitute in Poke Cup.
Nidoking
Level: 55
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Horn Drill / Double Team
What does Nidoking have over Nidoqueen? At 55 it has all the bulk it wants and can outspeed and beat 50 Jynx. It plays 99% the same and needs no explanation.
Other options: Body Slam, Rock Slide, Substitute and Focus Energy in Poke Cup
Slowbro
Level: 50
- Amnesia
- Psychic / Surf
- Double Team / Thunder Wave
- Rest
This is the wrong format to be using Slowbro, but picking the right set can ease the burn. Psychic lets it go for spc drops against special walls like Starmie and Chansey. Surf has more PP and does actual damage to eva spamming Alakazam while still breaking Lapras' rest loop (when it doesn't kill you). This is where it gets tricky: chances are your opponent is going to try to freeze/crit/sleep you and chances are it's going to work, so Double Team is standard in the third slot to weaken Blizzard and other forms of hax. Thunder Wave is useful against walls that would try to stall your attacking move, killing them with an extra hit on a FP or just stalling back with the extra PP, and gives speed control for setting up Amnesia. And... it's paralysis support. The r-word below may help with boomers and Tauros if you're baiting your opponent into bringing them but doesn't cover Slowbro's other glaring weaknesses, so it's risky.
Other options: Reflect, Dig
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Post by Plague von Karma on Jul 24, 2020 16:19:57 GMT
Edited the sets mentioned. I didn't bother calcing Double Kick vs Chansey before dropping it and I didn't think of paralysis support for Horn Drill don, so those are on me. I thought Surf could be alright for Jynx and Zam for 3 attacks but you're right, it's pretty much useless (both 3 attacks and Surf) even compared to screens because it's redundant in any of the MUs it "helps" in. Maybe I should remove MD egg for similar reasons lol. More sets. Venusaur Level: 50 - Sleep Powder - Swords Dance - Razor Leaf - Body Slam / Hyper Beam Venusaur's appeal over other Grasses is in its speed tier, letting it outspeed and sleep Lapras without level investment. If this isn't a concern, like on a balanced level setup, Victreebel's raw strength and versatility should outweigh Venusaur's higher defense stat, but you could argue they even out at 55. Swords Dance is the only real way to take advantage of sleep, leaving a choice between Body Slam's reliability and paralysis spread and Hyper Beam's killing power for a last move. Pretty much the only thing that will die in one shot to a +2 Hyper Beam is Jynx, so Body Slam is favored against healthy teams. Nidoqueen Level: 51 / 53 - Earthquake - Blizzard - Thunderbolt - Horn Drill / Double Team Speaking of balance teams, Nidoqueen is best used over Nidoking at low and medium levels where its bulk makes it a little bit better at getting hits in on aces of Alakazam, Rhydon, and even Lapras. Though it sacrifices physical attack, the Earthquake difference doesn't really matter. The moveset should always include the coverage the Nidos are known for, and the last slot is filler. Horn Drill is a common last resort while a Double Team on a forced switch helps with survivability. Other options: Body Slam, Substitute in Poke Cup. Nidoking Level: 55 - Earthquake - Blizzard - Thunderbolt - Horn Drill / Double Team What does Nidoking have over Nidoqueen? At 55 it has all the bulk it wants and can outspeed and beat 50 Jynx. It plays 99% the same and needs no explanation. Other options: Body Slam, Rock Slide, Substitute in Poke Cup Slowbro Level: 50 - Amnesia - Psychic / Surf - Double Team / Thunder Wave - Rest This is the wrong format to be using Slowbro, but picking the right set can ease the burn. Psychic lets it go for spc drops against special walls like Starmie and Chansey. Surf has more PP and does actual damage to eva spamming Alakazam while still breaking Lapras' rest loop (when it doesn't kill you). This is where it gets tricky: chances are your opponent is going to try to freeze/crit/sleep you and chances are it's going to work, so Double Team is standard in the third slot to weaken Blizzard and other forms of hax. Thunder Wave is useful against walls that would try to stall your attacking move, killing them with an extra hit on a FP or just stalling back with the extra PP, and gives speed control for setting up Amnesia. And... it's paralysis support. The r-word below may help with boomers and Tauros if you're baiting your opponent into bringing them but doesn't cover Slowbro's other glaring weaknesses, so it's risky. Other options: Reflect, Dig I approved the ones you edited and put them on the dex, along with my Tauros. Here are the links, if there's anything wrong, lemme know. Do you think the others are ok to be uploaded? Anyway, your sets. - Venusaur is fine, I'll upload that along with any other sets you approve of mine.
- Nidos could have a Double Kick mention for Chansey? Focus Energy Nidoking in Stadium Poke Cup is also relevant.
- Slowbro is a bit slow to be using Double Team imo, that should be in Other Options.
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Post by zalarye on Jul 24, 2020 22:34:10 GMT
I'm not confident with exact sets for either, but cuno is solid right now. You could put Toxic in other options if you want since it used to be a countermeasure for low level Lapras, but I think that's fallen out, so you can put it up as is. Double Kick does less to Chansey than Earthquake and Nidoqueen wouldn't even 3HKO against 55 so I don't see it being worth over the main fillers, Focus Energy looks sick though. My experience with DT bro is only in NC99 where the metagame is easier on it offensively (and it's broken) so I can see your argument. I think we should test the mon a bit and I'd be down to drop it if it turns out shit.
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Post by Plague von Karma on Jul 24, 2020 23:28:01 GMT
I'm not confident with exact sets for either, but cuno is solid right now. You could put Toxic in other options if you want since it used to be a countermeasure for low level Lapras, but I think that's fallen out, so you can put it up as is. Double Kick does less to Chansey than Earthquake and Nidoqueen wouldn't even 3HKO against 55 so I don't see it being worth over the main fillers, Focus Energy looks sick though. My experience with DT bro is only in NC99 where the metagame is easier on it offensively (and it's broken) so I can see your argument. I think we should test the mon a bit and I'd be down to drop it if it turns out shit. Alright, I'll upload Articuno, Nidoqueen, Nidoking and Venusaur. Nidos will have Focus Energy on OO, but not Double Kick. Articuno will have Toxic in OO. I'll definitely be down to test Double Team Slowbro. |
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Post by zalarye on Aug 4, 2020 1:00:29 GMT
Now that the game is actually playable on the 2k20 server and the only major bug is lack of invulnerability, let's fill in some of those gaps. I'm guessing Lapras is on hold but for the WIP we should get Double Team as either a third slot or an other option as Lapras is tough to break for most teams as is and evasion lets it stay in and prevent sleep loops, booms, and Rest attackers from tearing it down. Extra hax on Jolteon doesn't hurt either. Other than that because its moveset doesn't change between levels and low lap is still a solid mon it can be extended to 50 / 55 if you care.
Dugtrio
Level: 50 / 53
- Earthquake
- Fissure
- Rock Slide
- Sand Attack / Double Team
Dugtrio's big niche is being the fastest Electric counter, and when you look at its coverage move calcs you'll quickly notice something: this is not a strong pokemon. So far it looks like it's a waste to level it on ace teams because of how little it does in a bad matchup. Weaker half ace teams give it a bit more of a reason to invest so it can pull out Fissures on more targets or weaken mons like Tauros. The fastest OHKO move gives it a way out of unwinnable games and Rock Slide is a last ditch effort to kill or weaken Flying types. The classic Slash from 6v6 won't stop Exeggutor in most cases so unless I see some examples of its viability it's an other option for now. The choice between Sand Attack and Double Team depends on if you want to be able to cripple and sac (6v6 strategy) or actually keep dug alive using evasion (JP strategy).
Other options: Slash, Substitute (in Poke Cup?)
(Rest)
Zapdos
Level: 55 / 53
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Double Team / Thunder Wave
- Rest
(Agility)
Zapdos
Level: 55
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Double Team / Thunder Wave
- Agility
This mon has some gimmicks up its sleeve but this is the most basic set + Agility. Dual STAB and level investment give Zapdos acceptable odds to beat most of the top 10 one on one and positives for this mon end there. If it can't kill something (Jolteon, other evaders, maybe even a rock for DT) it can either go for an evasion stall with its bulk or bite the bullet and give paralysis support to something that can. If you really need a teammate not to get slept, Rest helps there as well. Agility might set up a sweep if you use it on a Rest or something and people live for shit like that so I've included it even though I'd drop it to other options in a heartbeat.
Other options: Hyper Beam (considered for 3/4 for Electrics), Thunder, Fly, Substitute in Poke Cup
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Post by Plague von Karma on Aug 4, 2020 9:41:18 GMT
Now that the game is actually playable on the 2k20 server and the only major bug is lack of invulnerability, let's fill in some of those gaps. I'm guessing Lapras is on hold but for the WIP we should get Double Team as either a third slot or an other option as Lapras is tough to break for most teams as is and evasion lets it stay in and prevent sleep loops, booms, and Rest attackers from tearing it down. Extra hax on Jolteon doesn't hurt either. Other than that because its moveset doesn't change between levels and low lap is still a solid mon it can be extended to 50 / 55 if you care. Dugtrio Level: 50 / 53 - Earthquake - Fissure - Rock Slide - Sand Attack / Double Team Dugtrio's big niche is being the fastest Electric counter, and when you look at its coverage move calcs you'll quickly notice something: this is not a strong pokemon. So far it looks like it's a waste to level it on ace teams because of how little it does in a bad matchup. Weaker half ace teams give it a bit more of a reason to invest so it can pull out Fissures on more targets or weaken mons like Tauros. The fastest OHKO move gives it a way out of unwinnable games and Rock Slide is a last ditch effort to kill or weaken Flying types. The classic Slash from 6v6 won't stop Exeggutor in most cases so unless I see some examples of its viability it's an other option for now. The choice between Sand Attack and Double Team depends on if you want to be able to cripple and sac (6v6 strategy) or actually keep dug alive using evasion (JP strategy). Other options: Slash, Substitute (in Poke Cup?) Zapdos Level: 55 - Thunderbolt - Drill Peck - Double Team / Thunder Wave - Rest / Agility This mon has some gimmicks up its sleeve but this is the most basic set + Agility. Dual STAB and level investment give Zapdos acceptable odds to beat most of the top 10 one on one and positives for this mon end there. If it can't kill something (Jolteon, other evaders, maybe even a rock for DT) it can either go for an evasion stall with its bulk or bite the bullet and give paralysis support to something that can. If you really need a teammate not to get slept, Rest helps there as well. Agility might set up a sweep if you use it on a Rest or something and people live for shit like that so I've included it even though I'd drop it to other options in a heartbeat. Other options: Hyper Beam (considered for 3/4 for Electrics), Thunder, Fly, Substitute in Poke Cup I like both of these. I think the Zapdos set could be separated, though, they tend to play quite differently. I uploaded Dugtrio, the set kind of goes without saying tbh. |
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Post by Plague von Karma on Aug 4, 2020 17:57:15 GMT
After some playtesting, the Slowbro set has been uploaded. Added L55 and Earthquake as valid options. The latter helps with Electrode and Jolteon in a similar way to how it works in Nintendo Cup '99. L55 from my experience had good power and bulk, being able to one-on-one a lot of usual would-be checks. |
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Post by zalarye on Aug 8, 2020 18:31:48 GMT
Edited Zapdos to the format you wanted. For a Rest set 52 is basically the minimum for the mon to be useful, I've picked 53 instead because of its DP calc against Jynx (89% 2HKO) tbolt crit against 55 Lapras (82% OHKO) and guaranteed 50 dug 2HKO. I don't like separating on 1 move like this because no one is going to use 53 Zapdos in the first place and the playstyle difference is obvious to the reader already lol
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Post by Plague von Karma on Aug 10, 2020 4:57:46 GMT
Edited Zapdos to the format you wanted. For a Rest set 52 is basically the minimum for the mon to be useful, I've picked 53 instead because of its DP calc against Jynx (89% 2HKO) tbolt crit against 55 Lapras (82% OHKO) and guaranteed 50 dug 2HKO. I don't like separating on 1 move like this because no one is going to use 53 Zapdos in the first place and the playstyle difference is obvious to the reader already lol I get what you're saying; it's mainly because of the way Articuno was formatted. Given the samples will also serve as a basis for a full analysis as well, chances are the playstyle diff would be explained in-depth there as well. Just future-proofing really. Zapdos has been uploaded accordingly. |
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Post by zalarye on Nov 10, 2020 10:18:45 GMT
*exists* (Double Team) Alakazam Level: 55 - Psychic - Seismic Toss / Toxic - Double Team - Recover (Thunder Wave) Alakazam Level: 52 / 55 - Psychic - Seismic Toss / Reflect - Thunder Wave - Recover Below 52 you literally drop instantly to Tauros. L55 Zam is deadly in matchups lacking special walls but questionably viable against said special walls, so the Double Team set is rather high risk. It sets up on pure special attackers and either wears them down and cleans up or creates an unbearable PP stall that usually ends in it getting frozen. Seismic Toss will conserve PP while making quick work of non-Rest Jynx and Exeggutor, while Toxic disrupts pokemon relying on instant recovery. Rest may be viable to draw PP stalls out as long as possible. The Thunder Wave set gives teammates like low level Tauros consistent paralysis support and aims to set up a sweep alongside a boomer or sleeper. Reflect can be used here to survive Explosions or a predicted Hyper Beam from L55 Tauros which is favored to kill L52 from full health. Other options: Dig, Rest, Mimic? (imagine rolling any jynx/chansey/starmie move with this demon especially infinite psychic), Substitute in Poke Cup Cloyster Level: 50 - Blizzard - Clamp - Hyper Beam - Explosion At any level higher than maybe 52 I would recommend Lapras for obvious reasons, but at low levels Cloyster has similar physical bulk to L55 Lapras with the benefit of pivoting and boom to stop it from being a deadweight momentum sink. Hyper Beam synergizes with Clamp and deals around half to Alakazam/Jynx, which should be enough to kill them while they're paralyzed if needed. While checking other options Gold mentioned BB and it restored my faith in humanity for the day. Other options: Surf, Bubble Beam, Double-Edge Will try this fucking monstrosity when I get the chance  |
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Post by Plague von Karma on Nov 13, 2020 17:06:15 GMT
*exists* (Double Team) Alakazam Level: 55 - Psychic - Seismic Toss / Toxic - Double Team - Recover (Thunder Wave) Alakazam Level: 52 / 55 - Psychic - Seismic Toss / Reflect - Thunder Wave - Recover Below 52 you literally drop instantly to Tauros. L55 Zam is deadly in matchups lacking special walls but questionably viable against said special walls, so the Double Team set is rather high risk. It sets up on pure special attackers and either wears them down and cleans up or creates an unbearable PP stall that usually ends in it getting frozen. Seismic Toss will conserve PP while making quick work of non-Rest Jynx and Exeggutor, while Toxic disrupts pokemon relying on instant recovery. Rest may be viable to draw PP stalls out as long as possible. The Thunder Wave set gives teammates like low level Tauros consistent paralysis support and aims to set up a sweep alongside a boomer or sleeper. Reflect can be used here to survive Explosions or a predicted Hyper Beam from L55 Tauros which is favored to kill L52 from full health. Other options: Dig, Rest, Mimic? (imagine rolling any jynx/chansey/starmie move with this demon especially infinite psychic), Substitute in Poke Cup Cloyster Level: 50 - Blizzard - Clamp - Hyper Beam - Explosion At any level higher than maybe 52 I would recommend Lapras for obvious reasons, but at low levels Cloyster has similar physical bulk to L55 Lapras with the benefit of pivoting and boom to stop it from being a deadweight momentum sink. Hyper Beam synergizes with Clamp and deals around half to Alakazam/Jynx, which should be enough to kill them while they're paralyzed if needed. While checking other options Gold mentioned BB and it restored my faith in humanity for the day. Other options: Surf, Bubble Beam, Double-Edge Will try this fucking monstrosity when I get the chance View AttachmentUploading these |
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Post by zalarye on Nov 16, 2020 13:15:57 GMT
Seaking
Level: 55
- Agility
- Horn Drill
- Blizzard
- Surf / Hyper Beam / Double-Edge
Seaking's typing and decent bulk let it pull an Agility and threaten to sweep quite easily despite its completely fucking abysmal attacking stats and 3v3 is kind to it, so I dub it viable. Even while paralyzed (this isn't stadium) it has over a 20% chance to delete something by clicking one of its RNG moves. Surf OHKOs Rhydon, Golem, and low level Dugtrio giving Seaking more health to work with in a sweep. Hyper Beam deals over half to anything frailer than a L50 Chansey, and Double-Edge basically does the same thing without opening you up to a switch that loses you the game.
Other options: Substitute in Poke Cup
Rapidash
Level: 50 / 52
- Agility
- Fire Spin
- Body Slam / Fire Blast
- Horn Drill / Hyper Beam
I could probably separate this to have a mixed attacking/lead set without Agility but at that point you'd just use Ninetales so let's go with this. L50 outspeeds Jynx up to L53 on its own so the one big speed creep it gets is low level Tauros at L52>L50 and L53>L51, 52 seems like a good bulk benchmark since it has a fighting chance against low level Lapras.
Other options: Stomp, Substitute in Poke Cup
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Post by Plague von Karma on Dec 15, 2020 7:51:25 GMT
Seaking Level: 55 - Agility - Horn Drill - Blizzard - Surf / Hyper Beam / Double-Edge Seaking's typing and decent bulk let it pull an Agility and threaten to sweep quite easily despite its completely fucking abysmal attacking stats and 3v3 is kind to it, so I dub it viable. Even while paralyzed (this isn't stadium) it has over a 20% chance to delete something by clicking one of its RNG moves. Surf OHKOs Rhydon, Golem, and low level Dugtrio giving Seaking more health to work with in a sweep. Hyper Beam deals over half to anything frailer than a L50 Chansey, and Double-Edge basically does the same thing without opening you up to a switch that loses you the game. Other options: Substitute in Poke Cup Rapidash Level: 50 / 52 - Agility - Fire Spin - Body Slam / Fire Blast - Horn Drill / Hyper Beam I could probably separate this to have a mixed attacking/lead set without Agility but at that point you'd just use Ninetales so let's go with this. L50 outspeeds Jynx up to L53 on its own so the one big speed creep it gets is low level Tauros at L52>L50 and L53>L51, 52 seems like a good bulk benchmark since it has a fighting chance against low level Lapras. Other options: Stomp, Substitute in Poke Cup Sorry for the (very) long delay compounded by the site issues. These have been uploaded! |
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