Post by crapatrby on Jun 14, 2020 20:50:03 GMT
Reading the Desync Guide thread, I noticed things get murkier and murkier the further you go in terms of how to address them from a policy perspective
Psywave
There is a 1 in 151 chance of Psywave desyncing, when it hits, when used at level 100.Metronome
Since metronome can call Psywave (with a 1 in 163 chance), it has a very small chance (1 in 24450) of causing a desync by calling Psywave.
Two entirely irrelevant moves competitively, simple to just ban the moves or just ignore as "lolRBY"
Counter
"This is the aftermath of a paralyzed Alakazam using Psychic, then Alakazam attempting to use Seismic Toss but fully paralyzing and Chansey using Counter. The Chansey player that used Counter saw the attack fail and do nothing to Alakazam, while the Alakazam player that attempted to use Seismic Toss took massive damage despite its last used move being Psychic." - quoted from this post on Smogon by Enigami : www.smogon.com/forums/threads/past-gens-research-thread.3506992/page-8#post-8342135Now me meet a move that, whilst not the most common, can't be ignored and has a definite and significant impact on the metagame. Losing Counter raises a lot of question; What would an RBY metagame that never had counter look like? Would Earthquake have seen nearly as much use on Snorlax? Would we have seen Tauros going for gimmicky options in place of it more? Would Gengar be better with less fear of counter-scouting EQs? Ultimately, RBY can live on being largely the same after a counter ban, it's not a move that the meta needs to function or has an indelible effect on every match.
Thawing
It is possible trigger a desync by using a Fire-type move (except Fire Spin) against a slower frozen Pokémon. A Pokémon that was defrosted is still forced to use a move on that turn, despite it wasn't able to choose one.Now we reach something more nebulous and potentially far reaching, despite thawing being almost never seen, do we ban fire moves (bar Fire Spin) because they can theoretically cause desyncs? Banning fire moves would definitely have a lot less effect than banning Counter, but is it really feasible to ban all move of a certain type. One could even make the argument to ban moves that can cause freeze, people in the past have certainly hinted towards not wanting freeze to be part of the of the game, freeze clause is consistently a contentious issue in RBY.
I also got some random desyncs (mainly from causing status or critical hits) while playing against myself, but I haven't made enough tests to confirm if that's native from the game or just a ROM/emulator problem.
Now we reach something that could, if true, be literally impossible to implement, or at least impossible to implement without making the game unplayable and unrecogniseable. We are still learning about glitches and quirks in RBY to this day, who knows what could come in the future. What if a move as integral to the meta as Body Slam is found to be able cause desyncs?
We already have things related to desync that are just sort of ignored due to the lack of a fight button on PS but a fight button will most likely one day come for partial trapping mechanics to be correctly implemented. When that day comes it will likely open a whole new can of worms.
My overall question is; Do we inevitably reach a point where desyncs become impossible to handle by a series of simple bans on moves, mons etc... and do we reach a point where we inevitably have to accept RBY as the glitchy mess that we have to "fix", for lack of a better word?
I don't necessarily have an opinion either way here, I've seen convincing arguments on both sides of the counter issue, it's more so an observation on something I think as a community we will inevitably have to deal with at some point
There is a 1 in 151 chance of Psywave desyncing, when it hits, when used at level 100.
Since metronome can call Psywave (with a 1 in 163 chance), it has a very small chance (1 in 24450) of causing a desync by calling Psywave.
"This is the aftermath of a paralyzed Alakazam using Psychic, then Alakazam attempting to use Seismic Toss but fully paralyzing and Chansey using Counter. The Chansey player that used Counter saw the attack fail and do nothing to Alakazam, while the Alakazam player that attempted to use Seismic Toss took massive damage despite its last used move being Psychic." - quoted from this post on Smogon by Enigami : www.smogon.com/forums/threads/past-gens-research-thread.3506992/page-8#post-8342135
It is possible trigger a desync by using a Fire-type move (except Fire Spin) against a slower frozen Pokémon. A Pokémon that was defrosted is still forced to use a move on that turn, despite it wasn't able to choose one.
Now we reach something that could, if true, be literally impossible to implement, or at least impossible to implement without making the game unplayable and unrecogniseable. We are still learning about glitches and quirks in RBY to this day, who knows what could come in the future. What if a move as integral to the meta as Body Slam is found to be able cause desyncs?
We already have things related to desync that are just sort of ignored due to the lack of a fight button on PS but a fight button will most likely one day come for partial trapping mechanics to be correctly implemented. When that day comes it will likely open a whole new can of worms.
My overall question is; Do we inevitably reach a point where desyncs become impossible to handle by a series of simple bans on moves, mons etc... and do we reach a point where we inevitably have to accept RBY as the glitchy mess that we have to "fix", for lack of a better word?
I don't necessarily have an opinion either way here, I've seen convincing arguments on both sides of the counter issue, it's more so an observation on something I think as a community we will inevitably have to deal with at some point
